Part I
You all got very fired up in class today. I like that. And it was funny to watch. Unfortunately, we got cut short. SO...here's your change to nail the opposing team once more before the debate is closed for good. If you have a counterpoint or rebuttle that did not get "air time," post it here. If not, describe which team gave the most compelling argument. Comment as many times as you like.
Part II
Ultimately, your opinions don't matter. Ha! Well, no, they matter, but not as much as the author's opinions matter. This is all about literary analysis afterall. So whether you think Dimmesdale or Chillingworth is more guilty, you have to put your own opinions aside and think about what side Hawthorne would take in this debate. In chapter 18, Hawthorne both direclty and indirectly reveals his opinions about the hierarchy of sins (hint: it's different from Dante's!).This is a pivotal moment in the novel. The chapter is called "A Flood of Sunshine".
- Reread this chapter, looking for moments where Hawthorne reveals his position on who is more guilty. Quote them.
- What is the difference between a "sin of passion" and a "sin of principle"?
- What is the significance of the "flood of sunshine?"
Answer:
- Why is this a crucial moment?
- Why does the sun suddenly burst forth in this way? What is the overall effect?
- What greater theme or purpose does Hawthorne convey in the scene?
Lastly, a personal question:
- What is your favorite part of the novel so far?
- Share a quotation from your favorite scene and explain why you selected it.
PART I: I felt that the team with the most compelling argument was Team #2: Dimmesdale. They argued that Dimmesdale is more guilty than Chillingworth, which I agree with, and defended their arguments with facts and evidence. Dimmesdale was accused of commiting three sins, which were lust, pride, and sloth. Team #2 did a commendable job of interpreting Dimmesdale's inner morals and feelings regarding the situation with him and Hester's affair. They said how Dimmesdale is guilty of lust because he fulfilled his desires of a sexual nature by going against God's law; adultery. Also, they defended their position by proving he is guilty of pride. Dimmesdale constantly worried for his repuation in the community, making him proud, which led him not to take full responsibility of his actions, while Hester did. He neglected to come forward to the town and confess. Finally, they argued that he was also guilty of sloth because adultery is when you have an affair with someone, but not necessarily someone you love. Dimmesdale had an affair out of lust, not love. This team's arguments were by far more compelling and used example out of the book to prove each accusation they made of Dimmesdale's guilt.
ReplyDeletePart I:
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Team 2's argument was based off of which character felt the most guilt not which character was most guilty. Team 1 argued that Chillingworth was the most guilty, they never said that he felt guilty. This argument is valid because it doesn't matter if the character felt it or not, someone could still be guilty of sin and not believe they are. This just makes punishment harder, and in my opinion it makes thier crimes worse because they keep on continusously doing it.
Part II:
Ultimately I think Hawthorne implys that Chillingworth is more guilty. This is because in "A Flood of Sunshine" Dimmesdale is free from his punishment. Even though Dimmesdale and Hester feel the most guilt they end up being free from it because they relized that guilt is self imposed. Chillingworth is blind from his guilt which in turn makes him more guilty because he continues doing bad things. Hester physically rips the guilt off of her chest and it lifts the years of pain from her and Dimmesdale, "The decision once made, a glow of strange enjoyment threw its flickering brightness over the trouble of his breast. It was the exhilarating effect-upon a prisoner just escaped from the dungeon of his own heart-of breathing wild, free atmosphere of an unredeemed, unchristianized, lawless region." Essentially it means they had been prisoners of their sin. They had been born again, pure, and not letting the pen of society write on them. However it is because they had been prisoners for so long, that they could feel this good. "I seem to have flung myself" Dimmesdale cries, "-sick, sin-stained, and sorrow-blackened-down upon these forest leaves, and to have risen up all made anew, and with new powers to glorify Him that hath been merciful!"
This flood of sunshine is the crucial moment of the book because it frees Hester and Dimmesdale. Their guilt is the majority of the novel, and now it finally disappears. Hawthorne tells the reader that guilt is usually due to society. In this novel sin of passion and principle is displayed by the characters in it. Hester and Dimmesdale acted out of passion and was spur of the moment, more instinctive than anything. whereas Chillingworth's was planned and was done willingly, it was acted upon in reation to his thoughts and beliefs.
Part III:
My favorite part of the novel is "The Flood of Sunshine" because the rest of the novel is so dreary. Its depressing, and made me feel bad for the characters. However my favorite quotation from the novel is sort of random, but its cute and funny. Its in chapter 8, where Pearl is being questioned by the Govenor. It is a serious situation because Pearl could potentially be taken from her mother but she completely mocks the situation. "The child finally announced that she had not been made at all, but she had been plucked off of the bush of wild roses that grew by the prison door" (pg 102).
I:
ReplyDeleteI think team 2 had a better base for supporting Chillingworth as the more guilty, but they were not able to expand their ideas well enough so team 2 was not able to understand what was trying to be said. They believed that Dimmesdale had more pride than Dimmesdale, which is wrong. Chillingsworth brags about his ability as a doctor on many accounts and also is proud of the harm he is causing to Dimmesdale. On page 155 he says, "but for my aid, his life would have burned away in torments, within the first two years of perpetration." Team 1 was better.
II.
"The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers,--stern and wild ones,--and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss." p180
"As a man who had once sinned, but who kept his conscience all alive and painfully sensitive by the fretting of an unhealed wound, he might have been supposed safer within the line of virtue, than if he had never sinned at all."p180
"Neither can I any longer live without her companionship; so powerful is she to sustain,--so tender to soothe! O Thou to whom I dare not lift mine eyes, wilt Thou yet pardon me!" p181
"Love, whether newly born, or aroused from a deathlike slumber, must always create a sunshine, filling the heart so full of radiance, that it overflows upon the outward world" p183
"sin of passion" is an unexpected, unplanned sin. It is unintentionally and spur of the moment so the sinners are unaware of the repercautions. "sin of principle" on the other hand, is intentional, thought out, and planned. a principle sinner does not care about the repercautions becuase they are intending to harm another.
the "flood of sunshine" is an example of ironic juxtaposition. A flood is destructive, harmful, and dangerous whereas sunshine is warming, bright, and hopeful. It is more significant to the future for Hester and Dimmesdale. It is a metaphor for the struggle of their relationship, but how it makes both of them happy.
This is a crucial moment in the novel because it is signifying forgiveness for Hester and Dimmesdale's sin. It is Dimmesdale finally allowing himself to be joyful again.
The sun bursts forth in that way so give the effect of a sort of epiphany because it is as if the sunlight is filling everything just as Dimmesdale and Hester are free of the guilt from their sin.
In this scence, Hawthorne is conveying a theme of man vs. society because when Dimmesdale and Hester are free from society they are able to express their true feelings without having the guilt and pressure to conform with their predetermined expectations.
III.
My favorite part of the novel was when Dimmesdale first held Pearl's hand on the scaffold.
p139 with the new energy of the moment, all the dread of public exposure, that had so long been the anguish of his life, had returned upon him; and he was already trembling at the conjunction in which--with a strange joy, nevertheless--he now found himself."
I selected this quotation because it is the first moment in which Dimmesdale truly enjoys himself again and has a sense of happiness. It is also the moment where he is revealed as Pearl's father. It shows the undeniable connection between the two and proves that Dimmesdale should be with Hester and Pearl instead of punnishing himself for sinning. Also, it is one of the only scenes where Dimmesdale does not seem sick and weak, but lively and passionate.
Part I- The team which had the most compelling argument was the team that was arguing for Dimmsdale as to being guiltier than Chillingworth. They had the most compelling argument, because they were able to find effective and relative textual support to back up their argument, such as quotations that describe the seriousness of his crime and how his sin of lust is one of the seven deadly sins.
ReplyDeletePart II- Hawthorne feels that Chillingworth is guiltier, due to Dimmsdale’s sin being out of passion and Chilling worth’s was out of hate and anger. This sets the two men apart, due to their sins have two different meanings to them. This is described on page 180 where it is stated, “But this had been a sin of passion, not of principle, nor even purpose.” Hawthorne also feels that Dimmsdale recognizes his crime and understands that what he has done is a sin, while Chillingworth does not notice that what he is doing is truly wrong. This is expressed on page 180 where it states, “As a man who had once sinned, but who had kept his conscience all alive and painfully sensitive by the fretting of an unhealed wound, he might have been supposed safer within the line of virtue than if he had ever sinned at all.” The difference between a sin of passion and a sin of principle is that a sin of passion is a sin that a person commits out of good will and without trying to endue harm upon anyone or anything. A sin of principle is a sin that represents the idea of evil and has no meaning or reasoning for it. Dimmsdale commits a principle of passion, because he was in love with Hester and had no control over his feelings. Chillingworth's sin is a sin of principle, because he is committing his sin has no sign of good in it and is being done out of hate and anger, which is the ideal representation of a sin. The significance of “The Flood of Sunshine” is that all the darkness and dull images that surrounded Dimmsdale’s life seem to be cast away by a “Flood of Sunshine” when he decides to leave his life of guilt and shame behind him. This is a crucial moment, because it is when Hester and Dimmsdale decide to escape the corrupt society in which they have been living in and that have opposed them. For the last seven years their lives have been full of shame and suffering from the amount of neglect and strict rule that this society had cast upon them, and now they are able to break free of this life and feel joy once again. The sun suddenly burst forward in this way, because the light being cast upon the two sinners signifies that they are being forgiven for the sins that they have committed. This gives a very dramatic and positive effect to a story that seems to have such a negative and dark meaning. The greater theme or meaning that Hawthorne portrays in this scene is Hester and Dimmsdale are being forgiven for their sins by God.
Part III- My favorite part of the novel so far is the scene at the Governor’s mansion, where the idea of Pearl being taken from Hester and given to a new family is introduced to Hester. A quotation from this scene is, “God gave her into my keeping,” repeated Hester Prynne, raising her voice almost to a shriek. “I will not give her up!” This quote shows how Hester is a very strong individual and caring mother, due to not allowing the governor to take her child from her. This shows how even though society views Hester as a bad person and a Sinner, she is truly a selfless and caring person.
Part 1:
ReplyDeleteThe team that had the most compelling arguement was the team supporting the opinion that Dimmesdale was more guilty. This team had the more compelling argument because they were able to cross examine for the full time given on the schedule. The team supporting the idea that Chillingworth was more guilty, did not have full time to cross examine and counter argue the other team. Also, from the start of the class, people were bias towards the team supporting Dimmesdale because they seemed to be more organised. While this may have been true, an open mind should have been kept to ensure that the arguments were based only on the factual evidense and not on predetermined opinions. Both teams provided solid factual evidense from the book, and both sides of the argument can be supported, but with the time given to the side supporting Chillingworth as more guilty, and other circumstances, the opposing team won.
Part I:
ReplyDeleteDuring our discussion yesterday, Mitch made the rebuttal that because Dimmesdale appeared to be emaciated and careworn, he was not guilty of pride. Firstly, thank you for proving our point that Dimmesdale is the more guilty of the two. Being emaciated and careworn shows how Dimmesdale has been beating himself up over his deep sin and guilt. That quote that you cited adequately reveals that. Secondly, being careworn and emaciated means that a person is rundown. It does not prove that they have no pride. In fact, when you are guilty of a private sin, sometimes the only thing that you have left is that outer appearance of your pride/reputation. It is Dimmesdale's desire to maintain his reputation that keeps him from revealing his sin. Thus, his pride is what keeps him from sharing in the public guilt that is rightfully his.
I also have a question for all the people who chose Chillingworth. You stated that Chillingworth was more guilty because his guilt came from hatred and evil. Correct me if I am wrong but he seeks revenge on Dimmesdale because Dimmesdale had an affair with Hester and then does not confess to save his reputation. Correct? Thus, it is Dimmesdale's sin and guilt that breeds the evil within Chillingworth. So, the greater guilt is with Dimmesdale because he was not only guilty of his own sins of lust, sloth and pride, he also inspired the revenge/guilt of Roger Chillingworth. He is doubly guilty. Also, technically, Dimmesdale's sin came from pride and from evil and yes even from love. However, love doesn't make us any less guilty. A man who loves his wife and kills her for the life insurance is not less despicable that a man who kills a stranger for their life insurance money. If anything, the first man is more guilty because he has betrayed the one he loves.
Part I:
ReplyDeleteAlthough i do not have a specific rebuttal i believe that Michelle gives a very valid argument. She states that Dimmesdale's sin is the underlying cause of why Chillingworth is seeking revenge. I completely agree with her. Overall the team that argued Dimmesdale was more compelling with their textually supported arguments, and with their meaningful counter arguments.
Part II:
Hawthorne makes it very apparent that he believes that Chillingworth is more guilty for his sin than Dimmesdale is. ALthough both men committed sins, there is a factor that completely sets them apart. "But this had been a sin of passion, not principle, nor purpose"(180). Dimmesdale committed his sin out of passion that he had with Hester. Chillingworth committed his sin out of the principle that he must obtain revenge for the affair.“As a man who had once sinned, but who had kept his conscience all alive and painfully sensitive by the fretting of an unhealed wound, he might have been supposed safer within the line of virtue than if he had ever sinned at all"(180). This quote shows that Dimmesdale has lived with his sin and is now coping with it. Dimmesdale realizes what he has done, and realizes how terrible it is. He is no longer guilty for his sin, he is guilty that he has not told anyone the truth. It is much worse for someone to commit their sin with the intent to hurt someone physically or mentally than it is out of passion. Hawthorne believes that Dimmesdale just needs to forgive himself. "The Flood of Sunshine," signifies the vanishing of the darkness that surrounded Dimmesdale for the past seven years. This is one of the most crucial moments in the plays because Dimmesdale and Hester decide to run away escape the oppressive society they live in. Also, Hester makes a very important decision to throw scarlet letter on the ground. The sun suddenly burst forward in this way to show how it has been building up, waiting to burst out and shower on these two truly good people. This gives a positive effect to both the characters because the reader now realizes that they are both good people and they have been forgiven. Hawthorne not only portrays that Hester and Dimmesdale have been forgiven by a higher power, it shows that in general, although someone may do something wrong, they can learn from it and eventually be forgiven.
Part III:
My favorite part of the book so far is when Pearl is talking to her mother in the woods, “Mother,” said little Pearl, “the sunshine does not love you. It runs away and hides itself, because it is afraid of something on your bosom. . . . It will not flee from me, for I wear nothing on my bosom yet!”“Nor ever will, my child, I hope,” said Hester.“And why not, mother?” asked Pearl, stopping short. . . . “Will it not come of its own accord, when I am a woman grown?” The character of Pearl never ceased to intrigue me throughout the play. It was astounding how young she was although she could grasp the general meaning of things. For example, although Pearl did not know the true meaning of the scarlet letter, she was able to realize the effect it had upon her mother and ultimately herself.
The opposing team mentioned pride, lust, and sloth in their argument that Dimmesdale is more guilty than Chillingworth. In my opinion, Dimmesdale does not have pride because of his appearance. If he had pride, he would probably not look "more careworn and emaciated than as we described him at the scene of Hester's public ignominy" (103). Although Dimmesdale had a relationship with Hester, he does not have lust anymore. His regret is seen with his "bloody scourge" and his fasting "until his knees trembled beneath him, as an act of penance" (132). Sloth is sadness, apathy, and joylessness. In fact, Dimmesdale "preached a discourse which was held to be the richest and most powerful, and the most replete with heavenly influences, that had ever proceeded from his lips" (143).
ReplyDeleteA moment where Hawthorne reveals his position on who is more guilty is when he states: "The minister on the other hand, had never gone through an experience calculated to lead him beyond the scope of generally received laws" (180). A "sin of passion" is a sin rooted in emotion. A "sin of principle" is a sin based on behavior. The "flood of sunshine" symbolizes the freedom that Hester and Dimmesdale feel. This is a crucial moment because Dimmesdale feels like "a prisoner just escaped from the dungeon of his own heart" (182). The sun suddenly burst forth this way because nature has sympathy for Hester and Dimmesdale. The overall effect is that Hester and Dimmesdale are not guilty. The greater theme that Hawthorne is conveying in the scene is nature versus society.
My favorite part of the novel so far is Chapter 12. A quotation from this chapter is: "No eye could see him, save the ever-watchful one which had seen him in his closet, wieldiung the bloody scourge" (134). I selected this chapter because it states the effects of Dimmesdale's guilt.
Part 2:
ReplyDeleteEven though both Chillingworth and Dimmesdale have committed sins, Hawthorne makes it clear that Chillingworth is the guiltier of the two. On page 180, Dimmesdale's adulterous actions are described as, "a sin of passion, not principle, nor purpose" proving the idea that Dimmesdale acted out of passion and desire, not to deliberately anger Chillingworth. On the other hand, Chillingworth's constant seek for revenge proves that he is more sinful. He knows what his actions will do to Dimmesdale yet he still longs for it. Dimmesdale "had kept his conscience all alive and painfully sensitive by the fretting of an unhealed wound" meaning he is dealing with his sin, and accepts that he has wronged. He does not try to take his problem out on other people. On the other hand, Chillingworth is consciously planning the suffering of others. He is not just carrying out a sin, he is planning it in advance, hoping that his enemy will undergo misery. His sin is not out of love for anyone like Dimmesdale's, but out of hate, and evil, making him guiltier. The chapter title "Flood of Sunshine" can be literally broken down into a huge amount of sunshine pouring in. But more importantly, the sunshine signifies happiness and relief for Dimmesdale. The flood of sunshine washes away the seven "dim", dark and torturous years Dimmesdale has spent dreading the day people find out about his sin. The source of the sunshine is him and Hester planning to go away to Europe. If he does go away, he would no longer live in a dark, torturous world as he would not have to fear people finding out about his sin. This is a crucial part in the book because Dimmesdale, the character who even has a name that signifies his dim and harsh life, no longer would have to feel this way. Furthermore, this moment causes change in Hester. She once said that her scarlet letter would naturally fall off when it was ready, but in the chapter, she rips off the letter. These actions come together to establish the underlying concept in the book that while one may sin, he or she can overcome in time and eventually be forgiven for it.
Part 3:
So far, I feel that the novel is very inconsistant in terms of exciting times and boring times. The book started off extremely boring for me, I struggled to stay entertained. However, the scene that finally grabbed my attention was when Pearl, Hester and Dimmesdale were on the scaffold. One quote that particularly caught my attention was "Shortly afterwards, like grisly sense of the humerous again stole in among the solemn phantoms of his thought." The idea of relating phantoms with his thoughts really made me look deeper into Hawthorne's ability to paint a picture and use metaphors effectively.
Part II: Although I argued above that Dimmesdale was the guiltiest, Dominique had a great quote that changed my mind about the nature of love as it applies to sin. Hawthorne states that "love, whether newly born, or aroused from a deathlike slumber, must always create a sunshine, filling the heart so full of radiance, that it overflows upon the outward world”(Hawthorne 183). This quote adequately reveals that Hawthorne believes Dimmesdale is the man who is less at fault because love has the ability to light up the world and make things right, thus eradicating guilt. Thus, my opinion has changed slightly. Before I thought that Dimmesdale was the guiltier of the two, but now I believe that they are both equally guilty and if not, Chillingworth is slightly more so, in the eyes of Hawthorne. Furthermore, the difference between “a sin of passion” and a sin of principle is that one that comes from lust/love and the other comes from moral values/principles and a lack thereof. Lastly, the flood of sunshine is the turning point of the story. Finally, the two characters who have felt nothing but guilt and sadness are able to experience joy. Hester and Dimmesdale both feel free and happy. The sun shines forth and nature turns a sympathetic and even well wishing eye towards the couple.
ReplyDeletePart III: My favorite part of the novel is when Hawthorne is describing Pearl in chapter six. He compares her imaginative dramas and wild energy to the “phantasmagoric play of the northern lights” (Hawthorne 87). I think Hawthorne portrays Pearl so perfectly with that one phrase. Plus, the imagery is so vivid. It sums up her duplicity and her ever-changing and wild character. Her disposition truly is like the colors of the aurora borealis. Thus, Hawthorne paints a colorful picture and, in doing so, portrays the nature of Pearls inner nature.
Part I: I believe that while Team 1 had a better arguement, I believe that Team 2's was valid as well. The issue with this debate is that both sides interpretted the term guilt in different ways. Team 1 argued guilt in the sense that a person is responsible for a crime, using the version of guilty used in a court of law. However, Team 2 argued over who felt more guilt and responsibilty for their sins. Being on Team 1, I am biased to interpret the guilt in the way our team interpretted it, in which case Team 1 has a better arguement. Chillingworth has sinned over the past 7 years, guilty of the sin of gluttony, wrath, pride, and envy. He has been doing these sins consciously, and shows no sign of stopping (part of the gluttony and wrath part). Dimmesdale, while also being guilty of several crimes, is the less guilty. Even if his sin of pride out ways all of Chillingworth's sins (it doesn't because Chillingworth is sinning for pride out of contempt of Dimmesdale), Dimmesdale's sin was brief, whereas Chillingworth has been vigil in his trials and tribulations towards Dimmesdale. And, just as Michelle stated above, there was good that came out of Dimmesdale's sin for love. It is because Chillingworth has sinned more than Dimmesdale that he is the more guilty, making Team 1 the correct side of the arguement.
ReplyDeletePart II:
-While it seems that Hawthorne supports Chillingworth as the greater sinner, he make many comments about Dimmesdale. One example would be "Were such a man once more to fall, what plea could be urged in extenuation of his crime? None; unless it avail him somewhat, that he was broken down by long and exquisite suffering; that his mind was darkened and confused by the very remorse which harrowed it; that, between fleeing as an avowed criminal, and remaining as a hypocrite." Hawthorne is discussing how Dimmesdale is to the society, a hypocrite and a criminal. While I believe that Hawthorne supports Chillingworth as the more guilty candidate ""Do I feel joy again?" cried he, wondering at himself. "Methought the germ of it was dead in me! O Hester, thou art my better angel! I seem to have flung myself--sick, sin-stained, and sorrow-blackened--down upon these forest-leaves, and to have risen up all made anew, and with new powers to glorify Him that hath been merciful!;" I also feel that Hawthorne doesn't simply believe that Dimmesdale is innocent
-A sin of passion is passion done out of raw human emotion. It may not have any visible purpose or benefit, it is simply to pacify a carnal human urge. During this time, society only tollerated what was necessary to the society, and a sin of passion would be seen as an unecessary sin. An example would be Hester and Dimmesdale's sin of adultery. A sin of principle is one that is done with a goal in mind to be accomplished. An example would be Chillingworth's sins toward Dimmesdale.
-The significance of a flood of sunshine is symbolic for the happiness that Dimmesdale feels now that he has been removed from his guilt. For the last few years, Dimmesdale has been tortured by his guilt and by Chillingworth, making him of poor health and depressed. When Hester lifts the burden from him, he is freed from his shame and his physician.
Part III My favorite part of the novel is in Chapter 17 when Hester is trying to convince Dimmesdale to run away and begin his life anew. The passage is not only inspirational to him, but also in general. Here, after 16 Chapters of misery, Hester has made Dimmesdale happy again, reminding him that he's not a bad person: "Leave this wreck and ruin here where it hath happened! Meddle no more with it! Begin all anew! Hast thou exhausted possibility in the failure of this one trial? Not so! The future is yet full of trial and success. There is happiness to be enjoyed! There is good to be done! Exchange this false life of thine for a true one."
1. I believe that the better argument was that Chillingworth was guiltier for committing his sin than Dimmesdale. The side accurately argued that Chillingworth commits his sin out of hatred and evil while Dimmesdale commits his sin out of love. Though both commit a sin, Chillingworth is guiltier for his sin because he shows no regret and bases it off of cruel hearted revenge. Dimmesdale commits his sin through goodness (not trying to hurt others like Dimmesdale) by showing his compassion for Hester. Group 1 accurately argued these facts supported by the text. Group 2 did not fully support the initial question and instead based their discussion on the question “Who feels more guilty?” Group 2 based their argument on Dimmesdale’s regret and did not defend the fact that Chillingworth was committing his sin through revenge, which made their argument weaker than Group 1’s.
ReplyDelete2. Hawthorne directly and indirectly describes sin in Chapter 18 in order to show how Chillingworth is ultimately guiltier for committing revenge than Dimmesdale for committing adultery. In these next three quotes Hawthorne describes Dimmesdale’s sin as being a sin of compassion and love which he accepts in this Chapter, eventually showing his true goodness: “But this had been a sin of passion, not of principle, nor even purpose.” (180). "a prisoner just escaped from the dungeon of his own heart" (182). "love, whether newly born, or aroused from a deathlike slumber, must always create a sunshine, filling the heart so full of radiance, that it overflows upon the outward world”(Hawthorne 183). The difference between Dimmesdale’s sin of passion compared to Chillingworth’s sin of principle is that Dimmesdale’s sin shows his goodness of heart through compassion and love for Hester, while Dimmesdale used evilness to plot the principle of revenge. The flood of sunlight that illuminates Dimmesdale and Hester, reveals their ultimate goodness of heart once both were able to except that their sin was under love and should not be punished by society. This moment is crucial since it is when Dimmesdale and Hester are both able to escape from the restrictions of society and admit to themselves the overall goodness of their sin. This shows an overall theme of man versus society because both are escaping the restrictions and corruption of Boston.
3. My favorite part of the novel is the end of Chapter 10 when Chillingworth pulls back Dimmesdale’s robe and sees something on his chest that is stunning. I personally was fascinated by the reactions of Chillingworth and Dimmesdale, leaving me in suspense. I remember this scene greatly because it was a turning point within the book. I also personally remember that the suspense made me want to keep on reading to find out what Chillingworth found, but unfortunately I ran out of time during study hall to find out that Chillingworth found the A.
Part I:
ReplyDeleteI feel that in our class discussion, the group that claimed that Chillingworth was more guilty had the weaker argument. This is because, although they stated that Chillingworth exemplified the 7 deadly sins, many of their examples were irrelevant and actually helped to provide support for the other side of the argument. Also, because Dimmesdale is guilty of committing a crime and he feels guilty for what he’s done, Dimmesdale is the guiltier party.
Part II:
In chapter 18, Hawthorne conveys his opinion that Chillingworth is the guiltier person in this situation. As stated in many previous blog posts, Hawthorne discusses the differences between a “Sin of passion” and a sin “of principle” (page 180). Hawthorne states that Dimmesdale committed a sin of passion, meaning he was in love, and the sin he committed was not done with any intention to harm anyone. This is compared to Chillingworth’s sin of principle, in which he committed a sin against his morals, knowing how wrong it was. Chillingworth’s sin was committed with intentions to harm others (being Hester & Dimmesdale). Because of this, Hawthorne’s opinions are extremely prevalent throughout this chapter. The flood of sunshine is extremely important, because earlier in chapter 16, “A Forest Walk”, Pearl informs her mother that the sunshine hides from her, as it fears something on her bosom. However, the flood of sunshine signifies a point where the sunshine no longer hides from Hester, rather it embraces her. It symbolizes the loss of the sin that has plagued Hester for the previous 8 years. This is the significance of pages 182-183 as well.
Part III:
Thus far, my favorite part of the novel is when Pearl plays in the forest in pages 184 & 185. A quotation from this scene that I like reads, “A squirrel from the lofty depths of his domestic tree, chattered either in anger or merriment, -- for a squirrel is such a choleric and humorous little personage, that it is hard to distinguish between his moods, --so he chattered at the child, and flung down a nut upon her head” (184). I like this scene because it really shows Pearl as a child rather than a devil’s child, and shows some innocence in her.
PART I:
ReplyDeletealthough the opposing side argued that Dimmesdale felt more guilt than chillingworth, the question was who was more guilty. The answer to this question is that Chillingworth is more guilty than Dimmesdale. although Dimmesdale commited the initial sin which ignited Chillingworth's revenge, Chillingworth was a bad husband, maliciously evil, and punished Dimmesdale for over seven years. although he may not feel guilt, Chillingworth is more guilty than Dimmesdale.
PART II:
In chapter 18, Hawthore conveys that Chillingworth is more guilty. he reveals that Chillingworth committed a "sin of principle" and Dimmesdale committed a "sin of passion" (pg 180). Dimmesdale's sin was out of love, while Chillingowrth's was out of revenge. the title "the flood of sunshine" shows Hester and Dimmesdale's revelation that their sin was only deemed as wrong by the oppressive society they live in. under a more natural law, it would not have been considered a sin. This may be why Hawthorne chose the woods as a meeting place for Hester and Dimmesdale so that they could be in a natural environment. the flood of sunshine also shows how Hester and Dimmesdale were finally forgiven for their sins because Hester had admitted Chillingworth's true identity.
PART III:
my favorite part in the novel so far is the scene of Hester, Pearl, and Dimmesdale standing on the Scaffolding. this is the first scene that shows the three characters together almost as some sort of family. a quotation form this passage that i enjoy: "Certainly, if the meteor kindled up the sky, and disclosed the earth, with an awfulness that admonished Hester Prynne and the clergyman of the day of judgement, then might Roger Chillingworth have passed with them for the arch-fiend, standing there with a smile and scowl to claim his own." (pg 142)
Part 1
ReplyDeleteThere is a fine line between being guilty and feeling guilty. The question for the debate was which character is guiltier Chillingworth or Dimmesdale. Although Dimmesdale feels guilty he is really only guilty of committing adultery whereas Chillingworth has been torturing Dimmesdale for seven years. Chillingworth also pushed Hester into marrying him when he was old and not right for each other.
Part 2
A sin of passion would be when someone sins without meaning to for example Hester wanted to love Dimmesdale and then ended up becoming pregnant by accident. The flood of sunshine is when Dimmesdale decides to run away from town with Hester. Dimmesdale says “This is already the better life! Why did we not find it sooner?”(p.182). Darkness was when Dimmesdale was hiding his sin and punishing himself. When he decided not to live his life feeling bad while having to hide his sin there was a flood of sunshine. This is a crucial moment because it is the first time in over seven years that Dimmesdale has felt better in life. Also, Hester takes off the scarlet letter which is her bold statement of no longer feeling shame and escaping others judgment. The sun is a symbol for freedom and relief that Hester and Dimmesdale feel when Hester takes off the letter and Dimmesdale agrees to leave town. The theme is how harsh shame is as a punishment and the immense feeling of relief one feels once they relieve the feeling of shame.
Part 3
My favorite scene in the novel is when Hester says to herself while gazing at Chillingworth "I hate the man!" and "He has done me worse wrong than I did him!"(p.159) . This is my favorite part because I feel relieved that Hester is finally realizing that Chillingworth is a horrible person who has hurt her and Dimmesdale.
Part I.
ReplyDeleteAs a judge I was able to watch the debate. Both sides gave very compelling arguments and it is extremely hard to choose, opinion wise, whether Dimmesdale or Chillingworth is more guilty. Dimmesdale is obviously morally guilty. He whips himself and carved an "A" into his chest, he also describes the extreme guilt he feels numerous times. As for Chillingworth, he is definitely guilty of most of the 7 deadly sins. He may not feel guilty but definitely more vengeful. It really all depends on how the reader connects and understands the word guilty to the book from their point of view.
Part II.
One obvious point in this chapter that Hawthorne makes conveying that he doesn't think Dimmesdale is technically guilty because "be the stern and sad truth spoken, that the breach which guilt has once made into the human soul is never, in this mortal state, repaired. It may be watched and guarded; so that the enemy shall not force his way again into the citadel, and might even, in his subsequent assaults, select some other avenue, in preference to that where he had formerly succeeded. But there is still the ruined wall, and, near it, the stealthy tread of the foe that would win over again his unforgotten triumph." suggesting that because Dimmesdale is able to feel "joy" and that he has a "better life" he can't be guilty. Hawthorne is essentially saying that with sin of passion, what Dimmesdale committed, one never feels truly guilty because they can be pulled out of their guilt. But, sin of principle, such as any one of the 7 deadly sins, the criminal would feel true guilt because they cannot fix what they have done. The significance of the "flood of sunshine" is to show that Dimmesdale is not truly guilty and he was able to undo his feelings of guilt. In pages 182-183 this is the first time the book has ever been completely uplifting and positive without any piece of darkness. The sun comes through and brightens the darkness that was following Dimmesdale and, especially, Hester. Since this occurs when Hester and Dimmesdale are together it really shows the passion and love the two feel towards one and other. This is the first time in the book where their love is completely obvious, therefore the greater theme is nature versus society.
Part III.
My favorite part of the novel so far is definitely "A Flood of Sunshine" (chapter 18). I really liked this part of the book because you can tell how happy Hester and Dimmesdale are together. They literally light up eachothers lives. I love how uplifting the description of Dimmesdale's feelings are when Hawthorne says, "It was the exhilarating effect—upon a prisoner just escaped from the dungeon of his own heart—of breathing the wild, free atmosphere of an unredeemed, unchristianized, lawless region. His spirit rose, as it were, with a bound, and attained a nearer prospect of the sky, than throughout all the misery which had kept him grovelling on the earth." It is so easy to get really into a book that changes from all gloomy to this flawlessly described happiness.
Part 1
ReplyDeleteThe one thing that I did not get to say during the debate was that Chillingworth does not feel guilty. Both he and Dimmesdale are guilty of something. Chillingworth of torturing Dimmesdale and sending Hester to the new world alone, and Dimmesdale of having an affair with Hester. However, Chillingworth does not feel his guilt, all he cares about is getting revenge. He does not care that Hester is an outcast and is struggling in life, nor does he have any care for the health of Dimmesdale. Therefore, he does not feel guilty about anything. Chillingworth, on the other hand, does feel guilty. He feels so bad for Hester and the things he did to her, that he carved the letter A onto his bare chest. Also, he went and stood on the scaffold that Hester had to stand on in order to feel the pain that she did. This shows that he does feel guilty for his crimes.
Part 2
In chapter 18 Hawthorne reveals that it is actually Chillingworth who is guiltier. Because Dimmesdale notices his sin and wants to make up for it, it makes him less guilty than Chillingworth who continues to sin and build up his guilt. As stated on page 180 “As a man who had once sinned, but who had kept his conscience all alive and painfully sensitive by the fretting of an unhealed wound, he might have been supposed safer within the line of virtue than if he had ever sinned at all.” This quotation means that it is better to sin and realize your sin so that you won’t sin again, than to never sin or notice your sin at all. The difference between a sin of passion and a sin of principle is they deal with sinning for different reasons. A sin of passion is one that does not have any evil in it. An example of this would be Dimmesdale. He does not sin to harm Hester in any way, but instead because he loved her. A sin of principle is one that is done with evil intent. An example of this would be Chillingworth because he is only looking to harm Dimmesdale. A “Flood of Sunshine” means that Dimmesdale and Hester are finally out of the dark and are in the light. When they both decide to shed their guilt, they realize that they were the only people keeping their guilt on them. Therefore, the “Flood” is actually a realization that they are not in the dark anymore and that the only thing keeping them in the dark was themselves. This is a crucial moment in the story because it is the moment that they decide to leave all their sin and guilt behind and go back to Europe. Once they decide to do this, they are engulfed in the realization that they are free of the guilt and sin that has plagued them for so long.
Part 3
My favorite part in the book so far is the description of Pearl in chapter 6. A quotation from this that I enjoy is the first sentence where it says, “We have as yet hardly spoken of the infant: that little creature, whose innocent life had sprung.” I like this quote because I find it comical that in the first sentence in the chapter that describes her, they call her a “little creature”. This is also the reason why I like the chapter because there are many comical quotes like this where they just make fun of Pearl.
I believe that group 1’s argument was better because they talked about the evils Chillingworth committed. Group 2 tried to say that he didn’t feel guilty which is true he didn’t but he was still guiltier even though he didn’t feel guilty . His evil is planned and malicious where Dimmesdale’s was unintentional.
ReplyDeletePart 2: Hawthorne reveals that he believes that Chillingworth is guiltier than Dimmesdale because of his type of sin. Hawthorne says “but this had been a sin of passion, not of principle, nor even purpose.” What he is saying is that Dimmesdale sin was just sin of passion where a sin of principle or purpose is more evil like Chillingworth sin of purpose. The difference between sin of passion and sin of principle is planning. A sin of passion is just a heat of the moment sin where in the end someone may get hurt but sin of principle is an evil planned out sin where the person plans out their revenge or how they are going to hurt another person. This is a crucial moment because the Scarlet letter is removed from Hester’s chest and she tells Dimmesdale who Chillingworth really is and they decide to run away together. The sun burst forward to create and show the greater theme of truth and happiness because the sun reveals the truth and then washes the people in its warmth and glow to brighten their moods and lives.
Part 3: My favorite part of the Scarlet letter so far was in the graveyard when Dimmesdale and Chillingworth were talking then Hester and Pearl walked by and Pearl points at Chillingworth and says “Come away, mother! Come away, or yonder old Black man will catch you! He hath got hold of the minister already. Come away, mother, or he will catch you! But he cannot catch little Pearl!”(pg 122) Pearl foreshadows the evil of Chillingworth and right to his face calls him the devil and says that he has gotten the minister. It’s a great scene to show how Pearl can sense what’s happening and can feel the evil inside of Chillingworth enough to relate him to the devil.
PART I: The most compelling argument was made by the group in defense of Dimmesdale being the more guilty man. However, the team in support of Chillingworth was not allotted the proper amount of time needed to rebut and cross examine. This affected the result significantly. But I believe that the group in defense of Dimmesdale gave a plethora of information which was backed with opinion and reasoning. They explained to what extent and the type of guilt whereas the team defending Chillingworth was lacking in their explanation and analysis of what it was they were saying. Michelle has stated the exact points which I would have liked to point out. The other team merely pointed out reasons as to why Dimmesdale may be seen as the guiltier of the two men. They failed to mention how Chillingworth was guilty, for they did not take the extra step in analyzing and elaborating on the statements they made as a team.
ReplyDeletePART II: I believe that Hawthorne is trying to point out that it is Chillingworth who is the guilty, or guiltier, one. Hawthorne writes that "love, whether newly born, or aroused from a deathlike slumber, must always create a sunshine, filling the heart so full of radiance, that it overflows upon the outward world.” To me this conveys that love will overcome the guilt and wrong previously committed. The feeling of guilt is something which is self-imposed and once disregarded, there is no evil or guilt left to be had.
ReplyDeleteIn the case of Dimmesdale, he seems to have flung himself, "-sick, sin-stained, and sorrow-blackened-down upon these forest leaves, and to have risen up all made anew, and with new powers to glorify Him that hath been merciful!" He realizes and acknowledges the wrong he has done but also realizes that this guilt which he feels is put upon himself by his own doing. Only the beholder of guilt can stop or create the feeling of guilt. Dimmesdale is overcome by his feeling of love which makes him realize that the sin which he has committed is forgivable, or manageable.
However, this is not true for Chillingworth for his sin and guilt are of different type. Dimmesdale’s sin is that of passion, love and willingness or desire to love. He desires to be with Hester and enjoy her company. In contrast, Chillingworth wishes to make Dimmesdale and Hester regret what they have done by making them feel guilty. This evil deed which Chillingworth carries out, is taken too far to a point where his revenge is too much and excessive. He is willing to torture Dimmesdale to the point of death. This is a sin of principle which is embodied by Chillingworth’s evil actions. It is these evil actions of revenge and hatred for Dimmesdale which also makes Chillingworth the more guilty man of the two.
The flood of sunshine which is mentioned is the acknowledgement of sin by Hester and Dimmesdale and their relieving themselves of the guilt that they feel which is replaced with the love they feel for one another. The sunshine is the leaving of sin from their cold and desolate hearts and the introduction of love and passion for each other into their hearts and lives.
This is the crucial moment of realization, acceptance, and disregard for their sin. It is not of importance and making themselves feel guilty is no way to live, nor is it right. Why should they feel guilty to have done something out of love and passion for one another when they have feelings for each other? The effect of the sunlight is giving up the guilt and embracing the light of love. Hawthorne conveys the purpose of breaking away from society and doing what is right. Hawthorne points out the idea that nonconformity is a good thing and by abiding by the rules set forth by society is constricting and self-destructive.
PART III: The part of the novel which I like the most is when the true intentions and discretion which Chillingworth uses is clearly pointed out to the reader. Hawthorne writes, “The intellect of Roger Chillingworth had now a sufficiently plain path before it. It was not, indeed, precisely that which he had laid out for himself to tread. Calm, gentle, passionless, as he appeared, there was yet, we fear, a quiet depth of malice, hitherto latent, but active now, in this unfortunate old man, which led him to imagine a more intimate revenge than any mortal had ever wreaked upon an enemy.” The true cruelty, evil, and guiltiness of what Chillingworth plans to do makes me realize how bad and evil this man truly he is. He no longer so much cares for his revenge, but would rather kill the man which has wronged him. The only point to torturing Dimmesdale is for the enjoyment in seeing him suffer. Chillingworth would not have it any other way.
ReplyDeletePART II:
ReplyDeleteAfter re-reading the chapter "A flood of Sunshine", the plot and significance of the passages were easier to comprehend. While keeping an open mind regarding Hawthorne's point of view on who is more guilty, Dimmesdale or Chillingworth, I found proof that Hawthorne is in favor of Dimmesdale, like Team #2. He says on page 181, "his mind was darkened and confused by the very remorse which harrowed it; that between fleeing as an avowed criminal, and remaining as a hypocrite, conscience might find it hard to strike the balance." Hawthorne is conveying here that Dimmesdale conscience is not free because he has not taken responsibility for his actions. Hawthorne also mentions the difference between a sin of passion and sin of principle, in which Dimmesdale has committed a sin of passion. He is an adulterer because his feelings and desires for Hester influenced him into being guilty for the crime. It was a more personal matter. Also, the significance for the chapter title, "A Flood of Sunshine", relates to the end when Hester pulls off her "A" and finally feels genuine freedom. It's a relevant and appropriate title for the moment as the sun hits Hester and animals become alive in the forest, resembling forgiveness.
Secondly, on pages 182-183, this is where Hester removes her "A" and expresses her freedom. It's a crucial moment in the book because throughout the plot, she stated how a divine power will remove her "A" when the time is right, but she found the strength and did it herself. She's been the character who deals with the slander and is looked down upon by society, but takes it. Now, she's a new person, determining her own fate. The sun is a key symbol in this part because it used to neglect Hester, but now shines on her, giving her warmth and acknowledgment, something she's been deprived of the past 7 years.
PART III:
ReplyDeleteHonestly, my favorite part of the novel is in chapter 18. I cannot fathom the power and strength it took Hester to remove the "A" from her chest, something that restricted, labeled and stereotyped her. It was truly inspirational reading about Hester taking a stand for herself and going against society. My favorite quote is, "But there lay the embroidered letter, glittering like a lost jewel, which some ill-fated wanderer might pick up, and thenceforth be haunted by strange phantoms of guilt, sinkings of the heart, and unaccountable misfortune." (page 182). I commend Hester for her courage in making the decision to do that. It exemplifies the change she has made as a character and the feats she has overcome.
Part I: After reading through the other comments I have come to conclusion that Dimmesdale feels guiltier than Chillingworth. One comment that Nick made states that Chillingworth is guilty of revenge however he does not feel guilty. I definitely agree with this comment. Chillingworth is guilty for seeking revenge however in the end he is seen as only pure evil and he does not feel any guilt at all. Dimmesdale on the other hand is physically and emotionally suffering from his sin. He feels the guilt as well as wears it on his chest where he carved the "A" into his chest. Overall Dimmesdale is guiltier than Chillingworth for the simple fact that Chillingworth does not feel any guilt from his sins and does not ever seem to care, while Dimmesdale is torturing himself for his actions.
ReplyDeletePart II: "As a man who had once sinned, but who kept his conscience all alive and painfully sensitive by the fretting of an unhealed wound, he might have been supposed safer within the line of virtue, than if he had never sinned at all” (Page 180).
ReplyDelete"Love, whether newly born, or aroused from a deathlike slumber, must always create a sunshine, filling the heart so full of radiance, that it overflows upon the outward world” (Page 183).
These are two quotes that revolve around the guilt that these two men have. Both make it appear as though Chillingworth is guiltier than Dimmesdale. Hawthorne I believe is trying to persuade the reader to support the idea that Chillingworth is guiltier. Although I believe Dimmesdale feels more guilt this chapter makes me think more carefully about my choice and realize that even though Chillingworth does not seem to suffer from any guilt he is actually the guiltier one in the sense that he is going to continue on with his actions.
Dimmesdale committed a sin of passion while Chillingworth committed a sin or principle. Dimmesdale committed his sin due to his affection for Hester while Chillingworth committed his sin by seeking revenge on his wife’s lover.
The “Flood of Sunshine” is significant because it is where Dimmesdale feels relieved of his sin. This is the chapter that he finally does not feel guilt anymore and “feels joy again.”
This is the most crucial moment because it is the moment that both Hester and Dimmesdale feel joy again. It relieves them of their sins and they are finally able to run off and be happy together. This appears to be a turning point in the novel.
The sun bursts forth this way in order to make a more dramatic change. As I previously stated this is a turning point in the novel. By over emphasizing this portion of the chapter it makes it clearer to the reader that Hawthorne is trying to show that this part of the novel is important. It is finally the new beginning to Hester, Dimmesdale and Peal’s lives.
A theme that Hawthorne is trying to portray is that the greater part of guilt is caused by a strict society. As soon as Hester and Dimmesdale free themselves from society they finally feel as though they can be happy again and go back to living normal lives. This shows that although you may be restricted by a strict society it is possible to get out and continue living the way that makes yourself happier.
Part III: My favorite part of the novel is in chapter 18 after Pearl and Hester meet up with Dimmesdale in the woods. This is my favorite part because it is such a tragic time in this novel. There are many different emotions that are expressed at this point. My favorite quote is, “O Hester, thou art my better angel! I seem to have flung myself-sick, sin-stained, and sorrow blackened—down upon these forest leaves, and to have risen up all made anew, and with new powers to glorify Him that hath been merciful! This is already a better life! Why did we not find it sooner?” This is right after Hester removed her “A” and they decided to get out of their society. It is my favorite quote because it is the first time in the novel that Hester and Dimmesdale are finally happy and it appears to be a turning point. I’m interested to see how the rest of the novel plays out.
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